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Like last year, Another Planet Entertainment plans to displace San Franciscans and visitors from Golden Gate Park. For about two weeks San Franciscans and visitors are getting kicked out of huge portion of GGP by a private entity so that it can make a profit. Chunks of time and space like this are going to add up quickly. Say good bye to the artists, musicians, athletes, fauna, and so in Speedway Meadows and hello to the Walmart greeter ....
When
21 AUG -- 3 SEPT 2009 (and in 2010--2013)
Where
21st Ave -- 44th Ave: Most of the West End of GGP: Polo Fields, Speedway, Lindley, Marx, Little Speedway Meadows, and the connective areas
Whom
All unauthorized users
How
Chain--link fencing
What to Do
Spread the word about our loss of access to GGP, the displacement of fauna, and the destruction of flora by letter, word of mouth, phone, email, text, etc.
Call your supervisor: 554-5184; 554-5163 (fax); 554-5227 (TTY)
Call SF Rec and Park: 831-2700
Attend the Public Meetings
8 June, 7pm, Zephyr Coffee House
11 June, 7pm, Taraval Police Station
15 June, 6pm, Grace Luthern Church
18 July, 10am, Sunset Rec Center
[keywords: Outside Lands Music & Arts Festival, Golden Gate Park, Chain link fencing, public property, privatization, SF Rec and Park, Disaster Capitalism, open space, public domain, public funds, Pearl Jam, Dave Matthews Band, Another Planet Entertainment, Polo Fields, Speedway, Lindley, Marx, Little Speedway Meadows]
When
21 AUG -- 3 SEPT 2009 (and in 2010--2013)
Where
21st Ave -- 44th Ave: Most of the West End of GGP: Polo Fields, Speedway, Lindley, Marx, Little Speedway Meadows, and the connective areas
Whom
All unauthorized users
How
Chain--link fencing
What to Do
Spread the word about our loss of access to GGP, the displacement of fauna, and the destruction of flora by letter, word of mouth, phone, email, text, etc.
Call your supervisor: 554-5184; 554-5163 (fax); 554-5227 (TTY)
Call SF Rec and Park: 831-2700
Attend the Public Meetings
8 June, 7pm, Zephyr Coffee House
11 June, 7pm, Taraval Police Station
15 June, 6pm, Grace Luthern Church
18 July, 10am, Sunset Rec Center
[keywords: Outside Lands Music & Arts Festival, Golden Gate Park, Chain link fencing, public property, privatization, SF Rec and Park, Disaster Capitalism, open space, public domain, public funds, Pearl Jam, Dave Matthews Band, Another Planet Entertainment, Polo Fields, Speedway, Lindley, Marx, Little Speedway Meadows]
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 3:47 PMI'll be at Burningman. -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 10:42 PMHey, cool, me too!
And during that weekday closure of the Bay Bridge on Friday before Labor Day, also.
That's really nice of them to do all the crappy stuff while we're at Burning Man! Go San Francisco!
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 9:54 AMCool!
Good to know.
Having learned that the two events are coinciding a lot in terms of dates, it seems that Outside Lands is obviously trying to `compete' with Burning Man in a way that is highly similar to the way Starbucks competes with small local coffee shops.
Long Live Burning Man!!
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 3:52 PMI'm not really sure how these events are competing, since Burning Man begins as Outside Lands ends.
Having been to both events, I'm not sure about an overlap in terms of attendees of both events, but nice try. Outside Lands definitely caters to a more hipster-ish and college-aged crowd who can afford $225 for a 3-day concert. (I only went because my husband was covering it for his job.)
And due to the amount of money this event generates for the SF Parks and Recreation Department over the 5 year agreement (www.eastbayexpress.com/blogs/...Content good luck with your meetings.
I wish I could find the exact amount, but the SF.gov site is clunky when it comes to searching. -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 7:47 AM"I'm not really sure how these events are competing, since Burning Man begins as Outside Lands ends."
You think people are willing/able to pay over 500$ to attend both events?
FYI
Golden Gate Park Closure
Chain Link Fences on Public Property?
Community Meeting County Fair Building 9th Ave at Lincoln Way Thurs, July 23, 7pm
With a helping hand from all the Supervisors and Recreation and Park, a private, for profit company will close about one third of GGP for about 2 weeks: 21 Aug -- 3 Sept 2009.
To prevent lawsuits and a loss of revenue, and to thereby maximize its profit, Another Planet Entertainment will install miles of chain link fence which will stop you from intruding into the Polo Fields, Speedway, Lindley, Marx, Little Speedway Meadows, and the adjacent areas, where you follow your routine, e.g., walking, sitting, running, biking, 太極拳, योग.
If you are concerned about keeping public parks open and accessible; preserving the quality of life in SF; the way certain public servants are destroying public parks to save public parks; the disruption of your routine by a private company, so that it can maximize its profit; the displacement of the fauna and the destruction of the flora of GGP; and other issues in re to the Outside Lands Music Festival, e.g., the disdainful lengthening of the duration of the concert despite wide spread resident complaints, parking, etc. please speak up at the meeting above and/or call your supervisor: 554-5184; 554-5163 (fax); 554-5227 (TTY).
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Sat, June 13, 2009 - 12:56 PM<<is obviously trying to `compete' with Burning Man >>
Yes, let us now compete with Burning Man. Damned Burning Man. We have so much more to offer than they do. Soon, people will be flocking to our little fenced in park concert instead of heading to the frikkin desert for fun, drugs, play, music, sex, booze, art, sights, sounds, freedom, lack of judgement, open spaces, new ideas, personal connections and their damned lattes in Center Camp. It'll be easy to compete with Burning Man. So let's fence up the park, put on a show and do it at the same time. Soon, Burning Man will be a tired, withered and dried up stale idea whose time has come because we chose to compete with them...and win!
Phuuahh-haha, trying to compete with Burning Man! Great, coming form a person with no friends and no photo. Then the alarm clock goes off.
: ) -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 7:37 AMI see what you are saying, though, there is no competition from your point of view ...
Any yet ...
If you pulled your head out of your keister and momentarily stopped looking at yourself in the mirror that you somehow placed up there and calmly looked at the two events side by side (c'mon, stop peeking at yourself!!), beginning with the closeness of the dates, you will see that Outside Lands is definitely trying to draw people away from Burning Man.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 9:33 AMi'm not sure i see the connection, oh anonymous person.
if the concern is that a large portion of the park is being made off-limits to the public, that's one thing. personally, i prefer public events on public land, and can see someone making a case that this shouldn't be allowed... unless of course, the revenue is so big that it makes a real difference to the city budget. which apparently they think it does.
and a major event has to be managed by a private group. the city doesn't have the resources to do it themselves. all of the big public events are put on by private groups, whether they're profit-making or not. and even the not-for-profits make money for people. and the city makes money by the fees it charges.
regardless of what we think, paid events happen in gg park all the time and there are parts of the park that you must pay to enter, like the tea gardens and museums (ah, for the days when the tea garden was free and it was only $1 for a pot of tea and plate of cookies).
but competing with burning man? why exactly would you care? so what if it draws a few people from burning man? if someone prefers to go to a concert instead of the playa, that is their free choice. there are plenty of people to go around. are you worried that the bmorg is going to lose income? burning man doesn't own labor day weekend. it's actually already a national holiday three-day weekend, you know.
i'm always amazed at how a lot of burners think the world revolves around burning man. not even in sf is that remotely true.
and yeah, someone with no photos and no friends insulting people with different opinions... not really a great way to make your case. -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 10:44 AM>I'm always amazed at how a lot of burners think the world revolves around burning man. not even in sf is that remotely true.
Exactly, 100% true! I couldn't say it better myself.
If HasBeenBands (oops, Outside Lands) fest wants to theoretically try and compete with Burning Man, awesome. Maybe it'll draw off fratboy-douches who'd otherwise come to Burning Man for the titties and techno and drugs. If they can get bad music closer to home, maybe they'll stay!
If the City gets revenue from this silly festival, and that means they'll have more money to perhaps keep the parks open and the bathrooms clean and accessible.... awesome! Come use the park the other 51 weekends out of the year, mostly everywhere for free, use the bathrooms and picnic areas and enjoy the lakes and the wildlife and the lights and the people who patrol it to keep it safe.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 7:36 AMi prefer public events on public land, and can see someone making a case that this shouldn't be allowed... unless of course, the revenue is so big that it makes a real difference to the city budget. which apparently they think it does.
ok great ... so where does one draw the line? you, no doubt, see how this concert will be used as a model for future concerts and that public land is going to be taken over by the private sector. sf rec and park is determined to transform ggp and city parks from urban sanctuaries into revenue generators
paid events happen in gg park: true, but the public does not get kicked out for almost 2 weeks
someone with no photos and no friends insulting people with different opinions: you know,, i forgot the smiley face that was leftt to me ... i should of let that post go .. and i hereby apologize and retract my statement and promise to think b4 i send in future posts ... , -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 6:27 PM>you, no doubt, see how this concert will be used as a model for future concerts and that public land is going to be taken over by the private sector
You're really in no position to make assumptions about what I see. No doubt. -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 11:51 AMi believe the poster was talking to me in this one.
and yes, i think i said that i do see that there is reason for concern about public lands being used by private businesses, and also acknowledge that the economics issues, and the rights of use issues, are complicated, with cases to be made on different sides. definitely there is gray area, and its worth watching.
paying fees for private restricted-access use of public lands is complicated, as we can see from burning man, which takes over a very large amount of public space for an extended event, and during the event, additional space (like the hot springs) are also made off limits. there are a lot of priorities and conflicting needs to be balanced in negotiations like this.
and as far as my comment about insulting people who have different opinions, i will say that as this thread has progressed, the insults and snarkiness have started flying from several people in this thread, and honestly, in every case, it just makes me give less credence to your actual opinions.
a discussion about public access to public lands that turns into an insult fest about the particular event or name-calling of the people who have differing views... that's so counter-productive, i feel like it must come from some alternative universe of social discourse. while it may be an effective way to piss someone off, snark does not make anyone appear to be intelligent, and it certainly doesn't increase the odds of having others understand or respect your perspective, imo.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 10:49 AMOh, wait, this poster is just a total whackjob troll. (Probably an "Activist" in real life.... they do tend towards stridency without actual facts to back it up, or convenient manipulation of facts for maximum hysteria).
From a posting of hers in another tribe:
"But what I really cannot figure out is how that is a legitimate excuse to violate the principles of public property. (Its easy to compare it with the torture issue) "
Snort. -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 6:31 PMum, brody, you lost me here. you think activist is a bad word?
i consider myself an activist, a founding member of the sf late night coalition where i spent five years of my life working with other volunteer activists to bring change to what we were passionate about.
an activist is someone who speaks up for a cause they believe in, wanting to make change, right? most of the freedoms we enjoy are because someone spoke up. many great heroes fit the definition of activists.
i have no problem with someone speaking up if they think the issue is that public property should always remain public. like i said, i can see making that case. i just think that there are logical problems with the argument (as seen in that quote from another tribe, simply not clear thinking), a lack of seeing the bigger picture, and there seems to be another agenda about burning man. -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 11:02 PMSome activists are indeed dedicated individuals, doing good things on behalf of everyone in the community.
Others are deluded whackjobs, incapable of critical analysis because they're driven by messianic thinking.
In practice there can be a fine line between activists and fanatics. A 'can't see the forest for the trees' type of thing. Look for the foam at the corners of the mouth...
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 9:44 AMLeslie- people who are activists who actually do good works and get things done...that's one thing. (and is awesome)
Unfortunately though, there's a really vocal subsection of people who call themselves Activists, who are really just angry, shrieking furies not actually doing anything except sign waving and yelling (or pasting in calls-to-action from dubious sources)....and if you ask them about actual FACTS, they won't often have any, or be able to say anything but the slogans.
So yeah, the word activist tends to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps there should be another word for the impotently-howling misinformation mobs besides activist (and that's the word I should have used, but I don't know a word for that).
>most of the freedoms we enjoy are because someone spoke up.
Well, spoke up and then followed through with actual ACTION, yes. Showing up to wave a sign and holler doesn't equal action in my book. -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 9:46 AMp.s. now taking suggestions for what the other word should be, for the strident howlers.
whacktivist? -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 4:55 PMhonestly, i think that it is dangerous territory to look for more labels for people so you can judge their passions.
if someone is a strident howler, then say that. those are descriptive words. but don't ever forget that many people think you, or i, are strident howlers, simply because we say what we believe, and they don't agree with us and don't want to hear it.
i like passionate people of all flavors.
now, people who make illogical connections, or cloak some other personal agenda in a different cause... that's kinda annoying ;^)
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 12:27 PM"Oh, wait, this poster is just a total whackjob troll."
If a "total whackjob troll" is one who is trying to make sure that SF's parks remain open and accessible to all, then yes I i am a `total whackjob troll'.
Another Planet Entertainment, a successful multimillion dollar company, is closing and making inaccessible to the public one third of GGP for almost 2 weeks by means of two layers of chain link fences and security guards.
APE is denying the public entry into a public park so that it can prevent lawsuits and a loss of revenue and to thereby maximize its profit.
SF Rec and Park sees the city parks as an untapped source of revenue just as the GOP sees the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge as an untapped source of revenue.
Consequently, the public is gradually losing its open access to public lands which serve as a sanctuary/play ground for countless residents and visitors.
Are you not concerned?
Are you not interested in preserving open access to public lands?
Do you think a private company should be allowed to have exclusive access and to kick the public out of public property so that it can make a profit? -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 6:26 PM>Do you think a private company should be allowed to have exclusive access and to kick the public out of public property so that it can make a profit?
Yes, when it pays fees to the park, yes. Just like you can rent a pavillion or a picnic area for a wedding. Do you get pissy when people rent a picnic area or a pavillion, and try crashing in there all hysterical and sign-waving, moaning that you're being denied fair access to public property? -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 8:16 AM"Just like you can rent a pavillion or a picnic area for a wedding."
Just like??
You know, Brody, I think you are really suffering ignorance: Rec and Park is suppose to being doing outreach, but it is not. I blame your low level of information on them.
It is not at all like renting a pavillion or a picnic area for a wedding.
How?
A happy couple cannot gain exclusive, possessory access to one third of the GGP for about two weeks.
A happy couple cannot install chain link fences around a pavillion/picnic area ***AND** the adjacent connective areas
and prohibit others from using the area for about two weeks.
Brody, according the Rec and Park's rules, a happy couple cannot even use amplifiers in the park for their wedding.
It is not at all like renting a pavillion or a picnic area for a wedding.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 10:06 AMYou didn't answer my question. Do you enter into the areas reserved for a picnic or a wedding, demanding access as your fair right? Or do you respect that those people have paid the appropriate fees to use that particular area for the entirety of the time they've reserved it?
Like I said earlier and you didn't bother responding to.... I'm happy that the Parks & Rec department can get a huge chunk of much-needed cash from use fees for the Outside Lands festival. WIth the budget cuts, and threats all over California of parks being closed/no longer maintained, I appreciate that they are being proactive in finding solutions that don't involve closing bathrooms, reducing security, not replacing lights or maintaining grass and plants.
Where would you suggest they get the money from? Are you out there in the park volunteering to clean bathrooms and mow the lawns and maintain the plants? Or do you just expect everything to be magically OK no matter what because you're ENTITLED to it? -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 10:58 AM"You didn't answer my question."
Fair enough: Brody, no, I've never acted as you described, nor will I ever. Such behavior never occurred to me; it is not within my frame of experience as it clearly is in yours. You do realize that your question is really sort of silly since there's never been a wedding in GGP that has displaced users and visitors from GGP for two weeks. You must also now realize that there is a **huge** difference btw a wedding which takes one day and a music festival that in effect takes almost two weeks, no?
"I'm happy that the Parks & Rec department can get a huge chunk of much-needed cash from use fees for the Outside Lands festival."
Me too; but I wonder if it will be used wisely: Last year, SF Rec and Park wasted $1.2 mill on a un-needed improvements to the buffalo paddock; this year it will be easier to do better.
Where are you in terms of principle?
Public property is by definition land that open and accessible to all.
Another Planet is violating that principle: It will install fences. It will close public property. It will prohibit people from using public property.
In a similar way, the Bush admin violated the principle that the US does not torture and prop 8 supporters are violating the principle of equal rights.
I suppose you are flexible when it comes to principles.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 11:17 AM>"I'm happy that the Parks & Rec department can get a huge chunk of much-needed cash from use fees for the Outside Lands festival."
>>Me too; but I wonder if it will be used wisely
So now you're in support of the Outside Lands festival? I don't get it.
You like that the parks are getting money, but now you're bitching about the potential for "unwise" (opinion?) usage? Man, complain complain complain!
What would it take to make you happy, in a perfect little shiny world? Or do you just get off on the act of complaining and worrying about the potential of Bad Things to happen? (best quote: "worrying does not prevent problems, it only delays happiness") -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 11:41 AMSo now you're in support of the Outside Lands festival? I don't get it.
I am not for or against the festival Brody: I am for keeping all of GGP open and accessible and out of the hands of multi-million dollar companies.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 11:29 AM>no, I've never acted as you described, nor will I ever. Such behavior never occurred to me;
Ok, so you'll respect that people can rent out pieces of the park, but you won't respect the Outside Lands renting out a piece of the park? It's the same issue, just on a different scale.
>it is not within my frame of experience as it clearly is in yours.
Catty! Snort. No, I don't spend my time crashing weddings...I respect that the Park is available for rentals. -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 12:00 PMCatty! Snort.
Uhm ... not familiar such language ....
uuuhh... Doggy! Fart.
: )
Thanks for the exchange Brody!
It is unfortunate for the public that you ultimately side with the private sector ....
hope your summer exceeds any expectation that you might have ...
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 1:37 PM>you ultimately side with the private sector ....
No, I'm siding with the public sector Parks & Rec department, doing what they need to do to keep the parks open.
It's too bad that some people don't understand that the money to keep the parks open & maintained needs to come from somewhere.
I applaud the initiative of the Parks department!
The private sector is not evil for paying money to renting a facility that's available for rental, also.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 2:20 PM"No, I'm siding with the public sector Parks & Rec department, doing what they need to do to keep the parks open."
Hmmm thought that was it ....
Ok ...
SF Rec and Park spent $1.2million (!!) on the buffalo paddock last year during this time of financial crisis.
Do you really think that that was necessary to keep the parks open?
Perhaps the crisis is not purely financial?
FYI: With your above statements in re to activists in mind, Another Planet Entertainment is recruiting volunteers for Outside Lands. Perhaps you would like to volunteer for them and show your support for SF Rec and Park? By your logic, your unpaid helping of APE will help Rec and Park.
"The private sector is not evil for paying money to renting a facility that's available for rental, also."
Never said it was.
My focus is on keeping public property open and accessible.
The renting is not the problem, although the CIty got screwed on the fees. Much more should have been charged.
The problem is that Another Planet plans to install fences to prevent the public from using public property for about two weeks.
There is no compromise by Another Planet.
The public is getting kicked out of its own property.
Again, its a matter of principle:
Where are you in terms of principle?
Public property is by definition land that open and accessible to all.
Another Planet is violating that principle: It will install fences. It will close public property. It will prohibit people from using public property.
In a similar way, the Bush admin violated the principle that the US does not torture and prop 8 supporters are violating the principle of equal rights.
I suppose you are flexible when it comes to principles.
Yes??
Where's the COMPROMISE, as you say, when it comes to the fences which prohibit people???
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 3:12 PMEquating indefinite torture and detention without trial with the installation of a temporary fence (and getting paid for the inconvenience!) is a gross distortion. Take an Intro to Art class, they can teach you about this neat-o thing called 'perspective'. It would be well worth your time.
And as far as the buffalo thing goes? That's owned/operated/whatever by the ZOO. -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 5:08 PMEquating indefinite torture and detention without trial with the installation of a temporary fence (and getting paid for the inconvenience!) is a gross distortion. Take an Intro to Art class, they can teach you about this neat-o thing called 'perspective'. It would be well worth your time.
Huh?
Waterboarding is a violation of the principle that the US does not torture.
The installation of fencing on public property to prevent the public from entering its own property is a violation of the principle of public property.
Both are examples of principles being violated.
Buffalo thing?
Zoo: Wrong.
That was Rec and Park too: RPD has a helluva challenge before them, no doubt. The answer, however, is not to compromise principles of public property and let the private sector take over city parks which Rec and Park is doing incrementally and has been wanting to do for sometime.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 5:21 PMYes, and blocking off part of the park for Two Whole Weeks is EVERY BIT as significant as torture, mm-hm. (And the 'give-a-penny, take-a-penny' dish at my local QuickieMart is a violation of the principles of Capitalism and CLEARLY shows we're sliding into Communism.)
>>"...let the private sector take over city parks which Rec and Park is doing incrementally and has been wanting to do for sometime."
You have a citation for this? Otherwise, I'll deem you a crackpot until I see it renamed the Golden Arches Park.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 4:52 PM>Again, its a matter of principle:
No, it's actually a matter of hard economics. Money does not grow on principles. Parks need money to stay open and maintained.
>Where's the COMPROMISE, as you say, when it comes to the fences which prohibit people???
I'm not sure why you're not understanding me. By compromise, I mean (as previously stated several times) that the Public and the Parks & Rec department need to compromise (as the Renter of available space, it's not Another Planet's problem at all).....Parks dept needs money to keep the parks open and clean and maintained. The public (at least the vocal activist part) apparently wants 24/7/365 access for free, no strings attached, 100% entitled to everything all the time. In renting out the space, the Parks & Rec gets much needed funds to operate the park. And, the public still gets to use a clean/maintained/open park, but parts might be closed now and again for rentals.
I think it's a fair compromise. And honestly, I'm sort of done talking to you about it, since you don't seem to understand, and keep sticking with your silly Torture talking points.
>Perhaps you would like to volunteer for them and show your support for SF Rec and Park?
Thanks, but I'll be out at Burning Man, volunteering for another private entity that's renting and restricting otherwise public land. You know, Burning Man? The event that this tribe is actually about? Want to come stand out in the desert and protest that you have to pay to get onto usually-public land?
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 8:21 AMBrody ... please, I'd really like to learn more about what you think...
SF Rec and Park sees the city parks as an untapped source of revenue just as the GOP sees the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge as an untapped source of revenue. Consequently, the public is gradually losing its open access to public lands which serve as a sanctuary/play ground for countless residents and visitors.
Are you not concerned?
Are you not interested in preserving open access to public lands? -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 10:08 AM -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 10:53 AMAfter you answer my questions ...
SF Rec and Park sees the city parks as an untapped source of revenue just as the GOP sees the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge as an untapped source of revenue. Consequently, the public is gradually losing its open access to public lands which serve as a sanctuary/play ground for countless residents and visitors.
Are you not concerned?
Are you not interested in preserving open access to public lands? -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 11:13 AM"SF Rec and Park sees the city parks as an untapped source of revenue just as the GOP sees the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge as an untapped source of revenue."
You keep repeating this, it must be one of the Talking Points handed out in your Activist meetings, no? Can you provide documentation from the SF Parks & Rec where they state specifically that they're going to continue to add big events to their calendar that fence off parts of the park? Or are you just playing Chicken Little based on one event?
>Are you not concerned?
No, I'm not. And I'm even less concerned now that I read your statements. Your statements have caused the opposite to happen- I'm more in favour of the SF Parks & Rec department.
>Are you not interested in preserving open access to public lands?
I am! That's why I support the SF Parks & Rec department in finding proactive solutions like this one in this time of budget crisis, so they can keep the parks clean and safe for us all to enjoy.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 11:40 AMActually Anamika, Burning Man does the same thing. Public land is not accessible to the public during at least 2 weeks out of every summer. Or is it different because "no one" lives there.
I'm wondering why you are only concerned about Golden Gate Park if this is such an important issue to you.
If you started talking about land use by Burning Man, at least then this conversation would be relevant in this tribe.
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 11:10 AMA slippery slope argument states that a relatively small first step inevitably leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant impact,
Outside Lands = a huge step that inevitably leads to a chain of more huge events wherein the principles of public property will be violated ...
that is, public property will stop being open and accessible to all.
See: Music seen as headliner for SF parks-budget relief [snip] After negotiating a three-year, $2.85 million contract to rent out a portion of The City’s most famous park for the three-day Outside Lands music festival, the Recreation and Park Department is now considering other properties for concerts. www.sfexaminer.com/local/Mu...0012.html -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 11:22 AMOK, thanks for posting this to show that they are considering other events now.
I still continue to support SF Parks & Rec in doing whatever they need to do to keep parks open, maintained and safe. The money just doesn't materialize out of the air.
These events would be taking place on tiny portions of the GGNRA. On those days, go play somewhere else. I think it's a small price to pay for keeping the overall parks system healthy. It's called COMPROMISE. Sure it's not perfect, but it's better than the alternative. -
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Re: Perimeter Fencing : Closure of Golden Gate Park by Outside Lands
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 9:53 PMStupid person who is too chicken to post a pic. You are obviously someone who is independently wealthy and has no concept whatsoever of the current financial crisis we are in. As Brody so wisely said, sometimes compromise is necessary. So no-pic person, get over yourself. If you're so concerned about a section of park being closed, then go offer the city the same amount of money to not have the event and keep that portion of the park open. O, you don't have a few million dollars sitting around gathering dust for such a purpose?? Then shut up and find an actual, real cause to worry about.
And yes, comparing the torture and atrocities that happened to 'persons of interest' with this non-cause is beyond unconscionable.
And as for begrudging burners who don't have the financial means to go to the burn but decide to go this event, F you. Obviously you are one of those people with no understanding of other peoples' situation. Isn't it nice that you have the means to go to the burn? Wouldn't it be nice if you used all this energy of yours to help a few strapped burners get to the burn instead of wasting everyone's time with this non-cause. (And in case you didn't notice, BM closes off a HUGE section of public land for private, paid-ticket-holders-only use for two weeks. Why not go complain about that? Who knows where THAT will end??? Get ready for those Walmart greeters, all you burners out there!)
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